Conversation between Dan Smith and Jack Sarfatti
	
	Today is Oct. 5, Wednesday Oct 5, 2005. There’s Dan Smith and this is Jack Sarfatti and we are discussing the core story of ET contact with the earth at least starting at presumably Roswell in 1947 and we know that there are a few iron post of observation in our own direct experience namely my contact as a kid at about 11 years old walking down a staircase, and literally a Charleton Heston kinda  voice of god said “Jack I have chosen you for something very important.” When I look to see who said it I couldn’t find anybody the hallways were empty I was kept after class, and the school was basically empty. That was the classical biblical prophecy contact like moses and the burning bush, Mohammed, and all that sort of stuff, it really happened, I wasn’t imagining it. And then about a year or two later the famous telephone calls from the allegedly conscious computer from the future, predicting how in 1973 I’d begin to meet the others which I did meet like Russell Targ, Hal Puttoff and, Brendon Aregan, Edgar Mitchell all around the CIA experiments on remote viewing.
	
	D-and we were listening to the tapes this morning.
	
	J- We were just listening to the tapes this morning. 
	
	D-first time you heard them.
	
	J- well I had heard them a little before, but I hadn’t heard the whole thing. It’s kinda curious how Saul Paul Sirag got access to those tapes but that is a whole other story. But let’s get to the core here which is the mind of God. We know that Einstein said, “I want to know God’s thoughts the rest are details.” At the end of Stephen Hawking’s book A Brief History of Time, he asks four questions…sort of like  the Jewish Holiday. He says one of the questions is what is the mind of God. And when even the common man on the street can understand the mind of god then that’s really important, I don’t have the exact quote at hand.
	
	And now the issue is we know the aliens are here. Dan thinks maybe they are agents of gods. I say we can’t really speculate that far. Maybe they are maybe they’re the devil, maybe the antichrist from the evangelical point of view. We don’t know. That they’re here we do know, we know that, there’s kinda of a twilight zone UT dimension to all this is quite obvious and that there’s a time travel aspect, and that they know what the future is, is also pretty obvious. And one of the things, when Dan asked… was it Richard Doty you asked?
	
	D-Rick Doty.
	
	J- When Dan asked Rick Doty collaborated with Harold Putoff collaborated with ex-cia officer Kit Greene. When Dan Smith asked Rick Doty why the cover up, why the fear of disclosure?” Rick indicated, “well the message was so horrible they were afraid to release it.” Which suggests like end of the world, armaggedon, maybe everybody’s gonna get killed, they’re going to wipe us out, or who knows what , and so maybe that’s the motive for the cover up another thing I think, personally it may not be so much that, as it is that they didn’t understand the physics of it which now I’m beginning to unfold, beginning to understand. If they didn’t understand the physics of it then it was a real national security military threat, because some of flying saucers are been able to outgun us in every way, and apparently have,  they’ve shot down aircraft, they’ve hovered over nuclear weapons installations, so they are a real military threat, but now since the discovery of dark energy in the last 2-3 years, I’ve begun to break the cipher, the code as to how the technology  really works, we’ve been able to make some real advances in that, and it looks as though we can actually solve the problem in not the too distant future, and actually build our own devices. So I think that’s a factor also, So Dan why don’t you now elaborate on your point of view on all of this. 
	
	D-Well one thing from the mathematical physics, is that and I’m sure that Einstein would agree, if there is a god, then we can think of the mind of god as being mathematically oriented and that’s part of the unreasonably effectiveness of mathematics, somehow God has the cosmology side of the mathematics worked out and this is what we are seeing see manifested around us. I’m suggesting somewhat suggesting somewhat with Saul Paul, that there’s a strong link between
	mathematical reasoning and other forms of human reasoning, and that we can
	think of God as not just being a mathematician, but as being a subject,
	having a subjective, personal conscious side, that our own minds someway
	reflect or replicate (god’s) and that part of the reason for the visitation
	is to trigger us to think more, to understand more of the cosmic design and
	where we fit into that and how we are going forward and how we will
	participate in our destiny matrix, if you will. I believe that is one of the
	delays, the delay in the disclosure is to get our minds wrapped around the
	cosmology of it, not just the physical, but the design, anthropic cosmology
	so that we can then take more control, we will participate in our own
	destiny then. And they are waiting for that participation to get started.
	And that’s why Jack and I have been here for a couple of days talking about
	how we can better integrate God’s thoughts with God’s brain idea, Jack is
	working on God’s brain, I’m trying to work on God’s thoughts, and if we can
	get these in sync, then we’ll have a message to get back to physics people,
	which is a prime target, I think is a prime target. Jack and I are both physics backgrounds, Jack is still practicing, I’m not a practicing physicist, but I think that’s not an accident.
	 
	J-What about also the military and the intelligence, Kit Greene and Ron and all that they’re important in all this too...(?) the NID, National Intelligence Director, they play a role in all of this.
	
	D-I think we agree that Ron is a key player here, must certainly know more than he’s letting on, but he’s been pointing us toward this core story since I met him back in ’91. 
	
	J-And the core story is basically that at least 3 ETs have been in touch with the US govt. in black operations, maybe in area 51 or some other military bases, is that, in short that’s basically the story, there are details of it…
	
	D-That’s it but it’s also a core story, it’s called that to some degree, it’s the hardcore of the phenomena, it’s where the physical, it’s where they made direct contact, physical contact with us.
	
	J-And it’s consistent with my 1953, almost physical contact and the prediction of what was going to happen 20 years later, which in fact did happen.
	
	D-which is when you started meeting some of the aviary.
	
	J- Yeah the aviary and Uri Geller, and the whole thing. Martin Gardner describes it in his book Science Good bad and Bogus, Magic and the power of physics of course he describes it from a debunking point of view because he’s very scared by the possibility of the phenomena, as are all the member of psi-cops, they’re just running scared, and use all kinds of dirty tricks of defamation to try and be in denial about the reality. 

	Conversation between Kim, Jack Sarfatti & Dan Smith
	
	Kim- I’m ready to go if you guys want to start talking
	
	J- just tell me when.
	
	Kim- when
	
	J- What were we talking about earlier today?
	
	D- God and physics
	
	J – God and physics and Einstein
	
	D- Can we get Albert?
	
	J- that I wanna to know God’s thoughts.
	
	D- You don’t wanna know God’s thoughts, I wanna know God’s thoughts.
	
	J- You wanna know God’s thoughts? What makes you so special that you wanna know God’s thoughts and I don’t wanna know God’s thoughts.
	
	D- It’s because of Sophia.
	
	J- Tell us about Sophia
	
	Kim- Who the hell is this mystery Sophia. I’m just curious. Dan I’m really curious about this Sophia. Who was Sophia.
	
	Dan – It was a one night stand.
	
	Kim – Was it a physical one night stand or a spiritual one night stand?
	
	Dan – It was audio, 
	
	Kim- audio one night stand. 
	
	J- Tell us more.
	
	D – I woke up and went to the Bible and John 16 stuff and then I cried for 3 days.
	
	J- Tell us what is John 16? What is that about.
	
	D- About the spirit of truth.
	
	J- Can you remember it?
	
	D-I have many things to tell you but you cannot bear to hear them at present, however that one will come who will lead you to truth.
	
	J- What was the dream, the dream was of this woman?

	D-Just an aural, aural, 
	
	J- Aural?

	D-no voice, audio, no words, just like sing song.
	
	J-how d you know it was a woman, how did you know it wasn’t an ET?
	
	D-it seemed like a female presence.
	
	J- Ok but you didn’t see any visual
	
	D- It was sort of high.
	
	J- You were high?
	
	D- the voice, the frequency was..
	
	J-Oh the frequency was high, could have been like a gray, like one of these gray, you know out close encounters.
	
	D-yeah but it seemed pretty personal
	
	J-what year was this?
	
	D- That was 1977, 2 years after I read your book.
	
	J-which book was that?
	
	K-Space time and beyond.
	
	J-You read the book and where were you when you read the book? D-Johns Hopkins.
	
	J-What were you doing at Johns Hopkins?
	
	D-I was maybe in school there.
	
	J-studying what?
	
	D-Urban studies.
	
	J-Urban studies? When were you taking physics courses?
	
	D-Then I went back, after reading your book, 76, 77 I went back to Misner at Maryland, University of Maryland, Misner, and Tippler.
	
	J- Tippler was a student though Frank Tippler.
	
	D-No he was post-doc
	
	J- He was a Post doc, Did you actually meet him personally?
	
	D-Oh yeah we used like to share an office.
	
	J-Oh you shared an office with Tippler. He was an undergraduate, or graduate student?
	
	D-I was a graduate student, I was working on my second masters degree.
	
	J-Where were you an undergraduate?
	
	D-at Stanford.
	
	J-oh you were an undergraduate at Stanford. Ok.
	
	K-You were a physics undergraduate? What area were you wanting to specialize in?
	
	D-Theoretical
	
	K-Quantum theory? Cosmology?

	D-Just general 
	
	K- just general
	
	D-And I was going to do at Princeton I was going to do particle physics.
	
	J-When were you at Princeton?
	
	D- in ‘66.
	
	J- Oh that was way earlier, that was way earlier so you were an undergraduate at Princeton? 
	
	D-no I was graduate student at Princeton.
	
	J-Wait a minute where did you do your undergraduate?
	
	D-at Stanford.
	
	J-Oh so wait were you there, did you know Nick Herbert at Stanford or Heinz Pagels any of those guys?
	
	D- No, 
	
	J- You don’t remember that.
	
	D- no there was Shelly Glashow was there at Stanford.
	
	J-Was he a graduate student then?
	
	D-No, he was a professor
	
	J- he was already a professor, oh Shelly was already a professor, Ok I see, so you were part of the whole scene, I get it.
	
	K-So Glober got the Nobel?
	
	J- which is good. Ok so let’s get to the next thing, what were we talking about at 
	dinner? You were talking about…
	
	D-Army and Navy.
	
	J-Ok Tell us about the army and Navy thing. Your father and Don Menzel. Both his father and Don Menzel were professors at Harvard and then they were in the war. WWII
	
	K-Well they were part of project Sin and Project Grudge.
	
	D-No…
	
	K-Well Menzel was, I don’t know about your father but Menzel was.
	
	D- Well you see my father was army airforce and Menzel was navy intelligence at Harvard. It was sort of like the grunts vs. the ?…At that point Menzel what did he do, he was able to trump whatever my dad knew, he knew more. And that my father was…
	
	K-he knew about what? Physics or high security information?
	
	D-My dad knew about D-day.
	
	K-Ok, so he was privy to classified information
	
	D-Yeah, and so now see that’s why I went into physics because my dad was an 
	economist, but see a physicists knew more, was more inside.
	J-But did Menzel used to come to your house or something?
	
	D-no, but I was only introduced to him once, he was giving a lecture on eclipses at the observatory.
	
	J-At Harvard. 
	
	D- At Harvard
	
	J-Ok Let’s get over now, what else were we talking about? You were describing different people in the aviary.
	
	K-what’s that noise in the background?
	
	J-…[fleet week]
	
	K- it’s outside it’s distracting.
	
	D-about the aviary, I’m saying that they are basically army, army/ air force is the 
	aviary also the grunts.
	
	J-ok so let’s talk about this who are the key players.
	
	K-wait a minute the ex-army airforce, current airforce?
	
	D-hmmmh.
	
	K- ok so wait a minute current airforce is the aviary, so how does the naval intelligence play into this? Because I know that there are severe disagreements between the naval intelligence and airforce intelligence with regards to the ET, I scenario.
	
	J-Well tell him about the core story. 
	
	D- Well the core story is about the three visitors, EBE 1, 2, & 3. Who were in the 50’s into the 80’s and they came and got themselves involved with the military. 
	
	K-the initiating contact was in the Eisenhower or Truman administration.
	
	D-Well I’m not sure, see there are different versions of the story. Basically there were certain special visitors that had a residence, several year residence and who communicated with…
	
	K-Is this J-rod?
	
	D-J-rod, Charlie and Charlene, if you want names. Those are made up.
	
	K-I understand J-rod is an approximation of what supposedly J-rod said.
	
	D-And my contention is that they have a message.
	
	J-What is Kit Greene?

	D-Kit Greene was denying for a long time denying that there was a message. He was simply saying it was hardware and bodies, he was a medical thing and he was brought in to maybe study the biological aspects. 
	
	J-he was a MD, knows no physics ok. When was the last time you spoke to Kit Green directly?

	D-e-mails.
	
	J-but you also had a physical meeting.
	
	D- we had dinner back in July.
	
	J-What did he say then?
	
	D- He was quite upset, with Ron and me , and he walking about the evil aspect, the potential evil aspect. 
	
	K-of what?
	
	D-well , see its physical here, it’s purely nuts and bolts.
	
	K- Wait a minute we’ve already come to the conclusion that they are here, that they are real, that they are physical so he’s worried about the fact that they might be evil? 
	
	D-not necessarily them, but that the rest of the UFO experience is a psychosis that was caused by the rumors, then caused the UFO psychosis that was prevalent after the fact.
	
	K-wait a minute, he’s discounting the entire UFO experience as a psychosis?
	
	D-Yes, psycho-socio…
	
	K-Really? but from what you just said, he knows otherwise.

D-well I don’t know, that’s what I’ve been trying to talk about to him about. That there is, it’s all part of the same phenomena, you can’t separate between the physical and the demonic, which he was seemingly wanting to do.

J-is he a Christian?...

D-no, I think he’s an Episcopalian.

J-But did he ever admit to you that he saw bodies?

D-I don’t think he did. He wanted to get more inside that’s why he had a meeting with Julian Knowles.

J-ok explain who Julian is.

D-Julian was his boss, former boss, at the CIA, the director of science and technology.

K-when was this? Circa what?

D- 70’s Julian is now in his 80s

K-late 70’s

D-and I was not told why Kit wanted this meeting. 

J-Kit wanted a meeting with you?

D-no Kit wanted a meeting with Julian. He had been bugging Ron about this and Ron finally arranged for the meeting and Ron told me this would then,  if he arranged this meeting then Kit would talk to me. And then there was the meeting and Kit wouldn’t talk to me and the party explanation was that Ron gave to Bill, Bill gave to Joe, was that Kit was requesting from Julian to have more access, more inside access and Julian refused to give that access.

K-Inside access to what?

D-to the core story.

K- the ET factor.

J-Bill is Bill Moore?

D-Bill Aparel? (sp?)

J-Bill Aparal? Who was the other guy?

D-Joe stafeler? He was airforce. Bill’s navy a little bit army, but then Joe was airforce…

J-Ok who was the one, was Collins that jumped over the fence to try to get to Regan? Tell that story. Was that Aparel?

D-No that was Bill Moore.

K-Bill Moore the Philadelphia experiment. Bill Moore and Jaime Shandera were the ones who broke the story on Roswell. 

J- tell them what the did to Collins. They got Collins fired.

K-I don’t know about this.

D-And they told Collins that if he were to go to Monzano, and go inside the security fence, told him to go at a place and a time, that Ronald Regan would come there in a helicopter and talk to him about the UFOs

J-This was while Collins was still an officer.  He was on active duty.

D-he followed the instructions.

K-Do you know where that was?

D-Monzano

K- oh Monzano, New Mexico nuclear weapons storage facility.

J- what year?

D- early 80’s

K Well they had a lot of UFO flyovers there, a lot of hoverers hanging over nuclear weapons storage facilities. They used to call them unknown helicopters, or some other euphemism, hovering helicopters, intruder helicopters, whatever the f*ck they…interesting.

D- and so he followed the instructions and he got arrested and got canned.

K-Oh this is Collins? Yeah I haven’t been following the e-mail threads to that detail, 
I haven’t had the time. I’ve heard of his name in other places.

J-Exempt from Disclosure.

K-right.

J-but Kit Greene has endorsed Collins’ book right?

D- right, it’s on the website.

K-Is Collins  of the opinion that ETi is real and that they are here?

D-Yeah, he’s published a book…

K-Pretty much everyone is coming around to that point of view. It’s a question of whether they’re here for good reasons or bad reasons. I think that’s what it’s distilling down to now.

J-have you met Angleton’s grandson?

D-no.

K-interesting.

D-that’s what distinguishes, Jack is concerned mainly about the bad ones.

K-no Jack’s concerned about the physics from the standpoint of a middle  to late 20th century person trying to protect our civilization against possible attack. And 
I come from the same point of view, by the way, exactly the same point of view. I grew up with that shit, that’s where I’m coming from, I’m not naïve about this stuff, and I don’t think that they are omniscient, they’re not gods, they make mistakes they crash, they can be defeated. I’m not going to assume simply because they can get there that they are omniscient and they can destroy us at will. And I told you this in e-mail, #1 I do believe in this galactic federation scenario in which alien species of superior technological advancement do not have the right to run roughshod over other species that aren’t without intervention by other intelligent technologically oriented species. This is a huge anthropormorphic assumption on my part but I think that the golden rule and the biblical 10 commandment type structures of logical reasoning are ubiquitous, they are all over the place, universal, like gravity they are universal. Any species that has the wherewithal to understand that from the get go, is going to understand why they are there why that is important to do. It’s a huge assumption on my part. It’s not academic.

	D- But that’s a point of contention.
	
	J- No I agree with Kim.
	
	D- That there is a universal golden rule,
	
	K-absolutely
	
	D-well that’s the thought of God.
	
	K-You know why, Dan it’s really simple, if there wasn’t we wouldn’t be here talking about it right now. 
	
	D-alright.
	
	J-I agree with that.
	
	? – but there maybe those who don’t follow the rule.
	
	J- That’s why they have the cosmic  police force, cosmic cops. That’s what’s going on they’re basically no different from humans.
	
	K-they may be more sophisticated in the subtleties.
	
	J-well we know the ones that are abducting, certain things they are doing to humans. There’s enough evidence.
	
	K-on the same point, since you brought that up, it’s disturbing that they are so interested in our emotional lives the way they are. It’s something that they lack in their lives? It doesn’t seem like they are just exploiting a stupid, dumb shit species. They are getting something from us that they need, that they don’t have, and I’m not the only person to say that, David Jacob says that John Mac started to come to those conclusions, a lot of people have come to those conclusions, they need something it’s like an aphid ant parasitic relationship here that’s developing.
	
	J-symbiotic.
	
	K-symbiotic, maybe symbiotic.
	
	J- well at least for some of them.
	
	K-Maybe not so much for us.
	
	J-there’s more than one species. And by the way, as we were talking about earlier today, I’ve had two direct contacts right,  one was a classical biblical contact, when I was about 10/11, on the stairwell of a school, a voice Charleston Heston type god “Jack I’ve chosen you for something very important.” I looked for the voice there was no one there. And then a year two years later, the telephone calls…so I know for a fact, that I’ve had these experiences…and the predictions that they made have happened. I have the tapes of the 1973 reading. Very interesting.
	
	D-that was a critical juncture.
	
	J-20 years just right on schedule.
	
	D-where you were being set up.
	
	J-By the CIA, Russel Targ, Hal Putoff…we have to edit those and put them on the web. So there’s evidence. There’s hard evidence right there.
	
	K-there’s a lot of hard evidence. The thing is that no one’s arguing about that anymore, that’s what’s blowing my mind.
	
	J-but James Randi and all the debunkers.
	
	K- James Randi is just some hodunk, Podunk, who is like trying to carry on the grand feeble tradition of Philip Glass…
	
	D-That’s where Jack and I are somewhat targeting the science side.
	
	J-Even George Chaplain (sp?) says, you did an important thing with Quantum gravity don’t mention UFO.
	
	K-what does that tell you?
	
	J-He’s scared.
	
	K-He’s scared. What does that tell you. The same brilliant people who worked with Edward Teller and Oppenheimer, around the atomic and hydrogen bombs were under the same type of strictures. if you wanted to preserve your job, not only your job, your academic integrity, your life, your miserable f*cking life, to get right down to it. They threatened their lives, if you blew any shit during the Manhattan project you were gone pal, you were history…so obviously the whole establishment of majestic, and the whole national security establishment which was related to Roswell and the UFO incidents post WWII and their hair trigger relationship to a nuclear world, in which a nuclear war could be precipitated by UFO sightings and things like that…you had all this relationship I mean what’s his name, UFOs and the National security state,  Dolan goes through that very well,we’re still on it. But guess what, everybody in the world, if you do a public poll of most people know that UFOs are real, most people have seen them, 
	
	D-so why doesn’t the government admit?
	
	J-because they didn’t understand the physics, that’s where I come in.
	
	K-I think they’re locked into a situation in which they can’t admit it.
	
	J-Also they listen to guys like Hal Putoff who doesn’t know anything.
	
	K-But we’re talking about disclosure here, we’re talking about admitting what they  already know and I don’t see that happening, and I don’t know why, I don’t want to extrapolate as to why because if you do, you start going down a really scary road, maybe they know something that we really shouldn’t know. 
	
	?-Maybe they don’t know enough.
	
	K-if they know that, and they’re not telling us that because people would run down the streets screaming and pulling  their fucking hair out and smashing their heads against the side walk.
	
	J-Remember what Steve Schwartz said.
	
	K-But that’s what I was told.
	
	D-But that’s what I was told.
	
	J-You were told what?
	
	D-That the message was too disturbing.
	
J-The end of the world.

D-which one could speculate that.

K-Well you know what’s scary about that because of the whole fatima mythos and the secret that the Vatican wouldn’t reveal. It’s the same thing, no, it’s Jacob’s we’re being taken over ,it’s  invasion, we’re gone, we’re being phased out by an alien species. And there’s nothing we can’t do about it.

J-Obviously there’s something we can do about it. We have some friends, not all the aliens are bad.

D-no, no, no, no You know what it is, it’s communion. 

? -Right

D-except you turn the tables

K-It’s unholy communion though.

D-It’s uncommunion. In Communion what do we do? We eat god, in this thing God eats us. And that’s apokastasis.

J-But you see that’s a little like what Anti-gray is talking about.

D- yeah he’s saying they’re going to eat us. They’re eating us.

J-He’s thinking literally alligators, He came out of nowhere. He’s quite intelligent. He seems crazy at first but he isn’t.

D-And Greenfield, Mark Greenfield.

K-What’s his name is not stupid either. David Ikes isn’t stupid either. He says the same thing.

D-That they are going to eat us.

K-David Ikes says that they’re reptilian and we’re history.

D-We are, we are but it’s god.

K-No wait a minute, no I don’t believe that because of Billy Meyer, and other, who I consider to be reputable, reliable contactees.
D-the Pleiadians, the white brother hood,

K-No, they’re humans, humans, they’re humans

D-Space brotherhood.

K- no they’re humans. This genotype is not unique to the planet earth. That’s the big premise there. 

D-So what.

K- So what, well It’s important. Well we may be evolved from reptilians, there was a mass extinction, but birds are still around and our dna is not that quite dissimilar to birds. So there might be some remote connection human reptilian connection in  our lineage here on human earth. What bothers me is the lack of truthfulness on the part of the government with regards to what’s clear in plain sight to most people. So either they know something that is so horrible that they can’t release to people or they’re just ignorant and afraid.

J-I think it’s the latter.

K-I think it’s one of those two things.

D-but then we have Ron to deal with.

J-Tell us about Ron.

D-I speculate that Ron is, is, is, grooming me and Jack to disclose, making the announcement, which we’re doing here.

K_You might be right. Which wouldn’t surprise me one bit since because Jack and I talked about this happening 25 years ago in great detail, in great detail.

J-That’s right and also we anticipated star wars.

K-Dan this is like not surprising to me. 

J-this was like 1981.

D-And it’s related to the Gorbachev problem, you had the public thing of star wars but then you had the rumor of the ETs and that was part of it. But, no I think there’s cosmic intelligence and central intelligence and you’d expect there to be some linkage, overlap. And so there was a need to know, they had a need to know because they had to keep the trains running. 

J&K- Right.

D-And they didn’t want to upset, to cause the panic.

J-Yes but there’s also the fact that the physics really wasn’t mature enough until about 2-3 years ago, and it’s getting better everyday now. It’s accelerating at a rapid rate that we now have kind of a natural physics explanation of how to do it.

D-that’s the vehicle, that’s the vehicle, that’s the medium but you also have the message.

J-Right ok, I’m just right now talking about the medium.

D-And I’m trying to talk about the message. 

K-On that note gentleman, let’s stop. 

	Oct. 5, 2005 Evening
	J-After Italian dinner, Dan is relaxed. Let us continue with these explorations into contact with the ET reality. 
	
	D- ok, we’ve been doing fragments of conversation, because of the technical learning curve, but hopefully Jack has been working diligently, we’re hoping that we have it converted  down so that it’s manageable for the internet customers, he has loaded it up to usnet group. Maybe there will be some listeners.
	I have a list of items that we haven’t covered directly, they are not in any coherent order, and I don’t remember what all we have covered, 
	
	J-You too tired?
	
	D-No. I’m being more relaxed.

J-Gotta remember the radio audience has ADD, got to be bang bang bang, you had too much wine man...

End of tape

	Conversation between Jack Sarfatti and Dan Smith
	Oct. 6, 2005
	
	J-We’re now session three Oct. 6. 2005, it’s about 12:30 p.m. and Dan you wanna say something about Wynuts?. At lunch we were talking about Richard Gott’s theory of the self-creating super cosmos, not just our universe, but the whole  schmear, in the p..inflation sense, all the infinity of universes, material universes, not just middle universes, of Everett Wheeler and all that. So ok what were you saying you were just rediscovering Wygnot’s. What do you mean by that?
	
	D-Wilhelm Wygnots, that he had the least action principle, and 
	
	J-Oh Best of All possible worlds
	
	D- I’m saying he had everything.
	
	J-He had Voltaire parodied it in Candide- Dr. Pangloss was Wilhelm Wynots, wasn’t he also a competitor of Newton’s?
	
	D- he was the Co-inventor of calculus
	
	J-I think him and Newton they didn’t get along,
	
	D- Well, they were suing each other

J- Watson and Crick, so much for…well like Watson and Crick against Linus Paulin. So much for congeniality, when it comes to great discoveries in science, it’s an urban myth, it’s never been true, hardly ever been true.
	
	D-Look at Rosalind, she was the one with Watson and Crick.
	
	J-then woman who got screwed out of Nobel. She didn’t get a Nobel right?
	
	D-No. 
	
	J-Well go ahead.
	
	D-So Jack and I were talking about lunch about self-consistent universes and Richard Gott has his closed time-like curves,  that something must exist before inflation.
	
	J- By the way, and Richard Gott is a big professor at Princeton, not just another science fiction flake guy,
	
	D- he was after Dan 
	
	J- After Jack too.
	
	D- After Jack
	
	J- After Dan and Jack.
	
	D-Princeton after Dan
	
	J-I see what you’re saying. He was also a Johnny come lately to this family.
	
	D- when was his paper published, the one we were just reading.
	
	J- not too long ago. I have to look.
	
D- maybe 2002